Andi, don't let it pull you down too much - there are good reasons for the rescheduling (and I've said some of those in our chat yesterday) and there's several upsides too.

For one, and possibly the best reason to drop the hotel plans: It's freakin' expensive to stay in this sort of hotel (yes, BarCampers don't need all the pampering but you haven't got an option at those places, you buy a lot of stuff you don't really need ...).

We can't expect sponsors to cover these kind of costs - unlike other camps I've been to this would be plain luxury and insensitive. Don't blame it alone on me or the poor guys at Kongressmedia, you know that initial plans for the hotel were different. And no, they are not "dropping" the wiki community at will and ease, there's been a lot of discussing and thought behind this, and it sure isn't dropping, it was more like a search for an alternative. Moreover, it's not their main job to organize a BarCamp, they're minding their business first and that's ok.

Now to the upsides (yes, there are some) - we'll have a weekend date (this matters a lot, I know of people that wouldn't make the one-day trip on a tuesday), we'll have different catering options to choose from and can thus spend our catering money wisely, we'll have a venue where a lot of international guests can drop in as well just because they are there already (hint!), we'll have more budget for things that really matter, we might even attract some new interest for wikis with people that just pass by (hint!).

So, please, don't be too pissed about the situation, I know that it's depressing and a lot of effort is going down the drain (ask me, yes, I wasn't too happy with the new plans at first but have agreed after thinking it through and doing the math), but I think it's a good thing to redesign and reposition the WikiCamp.

Martin, I'm not angry at you but the guys from KongressMedia. I fully understand that a 5-star hotel is not the right venue for a barcamp-style event. But that hotel was KongressMedia's decision even though they had committed themself to host the WikiCamp. It's the break of this commitment that pisses me off.

Andi, hm, it's probably best to wait and see what they can organize in terms of new venue.

Can't say much, because I am not really involved in the "behind the scenes pulling on strings" thing they are doing now, but I am sure that they speak for the WikiCamp idea and do their best ...

I just had the chance to be in an open preparation meeting for another commercial Web 2.0 conference event.

I learned about the wanted audience, from point of view of the organizers:

Customers who "take 1000 EUR in their hands and pay, for a 1- or 2-day show, and for who the money does not count, as long as there is a nonmonetary benifit ( contacts ) or monetary benefit ( new business idea or understanding )".

Mostly these people are expected that they don´t pay the bill by themselves, but the company does.

In the special case of Web 2.0, the target audience are advertising/marketing agencies.
Annd there was an open discussion at the preparation event "how to win 100 customers from advertising/marketing agencies, even if loose 300 Web 2.0 expert people".

So such organizers WANT 1000 EUR to spend for a rich conference, for well-known speakers... they don´t want to make a bargain conference. Just the best is good enough for them. Remember nobody of this audience and this kind  of organizers is willing to pay/demand 800 EUR for a bad show, if he can get a good show for 1000 EUR !

So if there is a Dokuwiki community, please think about, if the community members get paid the confererence bill by his/her company ! I don´t think so.

Btw, there IS an opportunity to do free or affordable IT shows, with some sponsiring, like

ICE ( free !!!!! )
http://www.ice-lingen.de/

FrOSCon ( bargain offer !!!!)
http://www.froscon.de/

Sincerely
Rolf

Full aggree with Andreas... it will take time for informations exchange to be out of money... nevermind, the wave is irresistible: informations, of which software is, are to be shared, not paid for... "Rome ne s'est pas faite en un jour"

Hi Andreas -

as one of the sources of anger I have to get on this discussion.

To be clear from the beginning - it is our fault that the WikiCamp is not taking place in Nov but we never wanted the WikiCamp to give a "grassrooted touch" to our conference. This is far from the initial idea for this.

Though I started the talks about the WikiCamp - we realized somewhere on the way that we could not organize this community event on top of our event. You need a different location, some additional sponsors and some additional communications activity - on top to our conference. And this done by people that want to get paid at the end of the day while you do not earn any money from it. And there is also no cross-financing - as we would have provide rather bargain tickets for the WikiCamp attendees than normal or more expensive tickets to refinance it. So the thoughts and the plans were wrong and not very thoughtful but there was no false intention. Sorry for that.

This said I really want to step back from the WikiCamp as initial organizer. I have arranged the possibility to organize the WikiCamp at CeBIT 2010 but it is up to you and the rest whether you want to take the chance or not.

Best regards. Bjoern

Well an affordable 1-day WikiCamp at the CeBIT2010 would be great, if sponsored by CeBIT ( in 2009 Web 2.0 was one of the themes of CeBIT ).

Without sponsorship of CeBIT, you won´t even find a hotel for the regular price... and all participants indeed will HAVE a REAL problem to get an affordable room for accommodation during CeBIT.

Did you know, the restaurants and hotels in Hannover have 2 different price lists: The regular one, and the one for Hannover Fair Industry & Hannover Fair CeBIT :-(.

Rolf,
living in Hannover, so "short ways, no extra accommodation costs for me" :-).